ADD II: The ADDening

So progress on various fronts, first some generalities then some specifics.  The more I play SR2015 the more important it is to make good use out of the objectives.  So far the Artillery, the Free charge and the Upkeep objectives seem to be what people build lists around.  If you aren't going to play one of those you play the objective that is difficult to destroy at range.  I'm curious if anyone is seeing anything else.

With that in mind I've thought of a few things I would like to try in Skorne.  Fist with artillery seems like something to experiment with.  I think Fist will also like the beast pacts for a bunch of reasons:  an AD screen, they are still infantry for all his synergies(moving through, press forward, etc) and Def Ward.

It would also be nice to find homes for Zaardesh and the Shamblers.  They both belong somewhere and it has to be somewhere stronger then pHexy for the Shamblers.  I'm curious if you can squeeze them into a Fatty list.  I'm also not sure about Zaardesh.  I've been curious if two brutes with him in Mord may work out as the first wave.  They should be really difficult to deal with under the feat.

I've also played a little Khador, both games with the OW.  One I essentially won at the top of 2, the other I was outshot.  This is the list I played in both games:

Khador - Old Witch modern

53 / 53 (50+3) Warcaster(s) : 1/1 Warjack(s) : 2 Battle Engines : 0 Solos : 4 Units : 3

The Old Witch of Khador - WJ: +3
- Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker
- Conquest - PC: 19

Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist - PC: 2
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor - PC: 2
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich - PC: 2

Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator - PC: 1

Ragman - PC: 2

Great Bears of Gallowswood - Volkov, Kolsk, Yarovich: 5

Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters - Cylena & 9 Grunts: 10
- Koldun Kapitan Valachev - Valachev 2
Winter Guard Infantry - Leader & 5 Grunts: 4
- Winter Guard Officer & Standard - Winter Guard Officer & Standard 2

I think it needs a little tweaking.  It had too many support choices and not enough bodies.   There is nothing in it to discourage a Jam and that seems to really be a thing.  The Conquest was interesting but if there is a properly positioned forest people can still see through it to be shot, even if it too can see through the forest.  I should probably field Mechanics with it too.  I think this would be an improvement:

Khador - Old Witch Modern 2

53 / 53 (50+3) Warcaster(s) : 1/1 Warjack(s) : 2 Battle Engines : 0 Solos : 4 Units : 4

The Old Witch of Khador - WJ: +3
- Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker
- Behemoth - PC: 13

Koldun Lord - PC: 2
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich - PC: 2
Eiryss, Angel of Retribution - PC: 3
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist - PC: 2

Great Bears of Gallowswood - Volkov, Kolsk, Yarovich: 5
Widowmakers - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4
Winter Guard Infantry - Leader & 9 Grunts: 6
- Winter Guard Officer & Standard - Winter Guard Officer & Standard 2
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters - Cylena & 9 Grunts: 10
- Koldun Kapitan Valachev - Valachev 2

It mostly drops the Conquest down to a Behemoth to open up options.  The Widowmakers are an incredible unit that should help out with the jamming problem.  I found myself constantly short on focus so the Koldun Lord should help out there.  Eiryss was actually in the top list until I realized I didn't bring her with me.  The fleshed out Widowmakers and Winterguard should be the extra beef I need too.

At least it brings two jacks but its really just a single jack list.  

On the Ret front, I've picked up the models I need to play the various tier lists.  I've just need to get around to assembly, which will certainly happen any day now.

Fatty Jam Tier

Lately I've been seeing a lot of jam lists locally that try to trap their opponents right outside their deployment zone.  I've been curious what in Skorne could replicate that effect or potentially counter it and the result is below.  It's heavily Skorne good stuff, but it all ties together:

55 / 55 (50+5) Warlock(s) : 1/1 Warbeast(s) : 3 Battle Engines : 0 Solos : 4 Units : 4

Dominar Rasheth - WB: +5
- Titan Gladiator - PC: 7
- Bronzeback Titan - PC: 9
- Bronzeback Titan - PC: 9

Paingiver Task Master - PC: 2
Paingiver Task Master - PC: 2
Agonizer - PC: 2
Agonizer - PC: 2

Gatorman Posse - Leader & 4 Grunts: 9
Gatorman Posse - Leader & 4 Grunts: 9
Paingiver Beast Handlers - Leader & 3 Grunts: 2
Farrow Bone Grinders - Leader & 3 Grunts: 2

THEME: Chain Gang - Tier 4

So my agonizers start with 3 fury, each Gatorman Posse gets +2SPD the first turn and I gain an additional 2" deployment, which I've found to be fairly huge for Skorne.  This means if I go first the Gators can be 23" up the field and if I go second they can charge living enemy models 26" up the field.

Initially I had a Sentry instead of one of the BBs but the Gators should provide a fairly effective screen for the BBs.  The BBs can clear zones and threaten a counter charge to stop a single model contesting.

The farrow bone grinders are completely extra points.  The extra range for spell casting may very well be worthwhile or the animus when my gladiator dies.

Knowing Skorne I wouldn't be surprised if the very same list(+/- 3ish points) has already been played and talked about.

New Colossals!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc6DeP47JnI

My current thoughts on these things matches up a lot with a post from the big boards:

"I'm considering this a no win situation for me. I already own two Conquests. I bought them (one very much discounted) and had them commission painted which is not cheap. I'm unhappy with its rules so I don't use it often. 

Now comes the Victor. It practically looks like the same model but has different rules. It creates rough terrain, drops defense, and causes fire. It has longer range but is innacurate.

So outcome 1 is that the rules aren't very good and I don't buy it in which case it is wasted slot in the book. Outcome 2 is that it is better than Conquest and makes it obsolete. Neither of these makes me happy.

I personally would have been much happier with a rules re-write for Conquest rather than a new model on the same chassis."

I love Colossals but they are an expensive purchase for PP to iteratively get right.

Faction ADD

I've been playing Skorne since moving to CA and I feel the faction ADD coming on hard.  I would like to try to polish a gem in the rough and I'm not sure I see any casters like that in Skorne.

It feels like I have 3 and a half options:

1. Khador
Greylord Cav have never been assembled and I've only played one or two games with 3Butch.  I also purchased 2 units of TAC to use in Khador but never got around to assembling them either.  Old Witch has been calling me lately too with SR2015.

Downsides?  New jack isn't out yet and wont be this year.

2. CoC
I have the BEs coming something this month, a ton of lights to assemble for Syntherion and a second unit of Reciprocators.  This faction still feels Wild West-y in that not many people play it and there has to be some room for discovery here.

Downsides?  The slowest, grindyiest faction in the game.

3. Ret
Tons of things I haven't played here too.  New caster, new junior, new unit of infantry and UA, new awesome jack and a Colossal.  I also like some of the modern tier lists like pVyross with the double Daemon, force wall and the Rahn tier list with the Colossal.

Also Ret is a fast faction which isn't something I'm really used to.  May be worth it for that alone.

Downsides?  Playing Ret.  I know Andy loves them.

4.  Find something to play in Skorne
eZ likely should be played more.  Also I should likely play pHexy more when he arrives.

Thoughts?

3 Flags Thoughts

I have played the new 3 flags scenario some and i've noticed a new dynamic from the last version i thought i would share. In the old version i noticed that i often wanted to go first to get a chance to sort of redeploy on the relevant flags and threaten past them before the scenario went active. Now i think i highly prefer going second. All the flags are equally valuable now and none go away. in almost every situation a player will need to contest 2 of the flags and give up the third to maybe running a model to contest. If you run your stuff so it is threating the flag turn 1 then it becomes very difficult for your opponent to even try to score what i've seen happen a bunch is that the person going first needs to either give stuff away trying to contest or engage the opponent at the absolute maximum range of their threat where they are the least effective. Moreover, by the second players second turn you can generally see the two flags the first player plans to fight
over. so, on the turn scoring starts the second player can send something small to control the off flag  and turn their entire army into the flags their opponents want. A lot of the time you can hurt the stuff put into position to contest maybe even kill it with guns or long range melee (i'm thinking a scythean deployed directly across from a flag or something equivalent like karn). so, i see three things happening:

1) They jam past/commit to control the flags/fight your army top of 2 thereby letting you alpha them without a reasonable opportunity for them to score to score (seems bad).

2) they try to contest the flags with the bare minimum of force which seems terribly difficult on three different flags considering that armies rarely have that many durable AND expendable models that can spread out that far. You probably get to kill some stuff and at least score the off flag. (seems bad, too)

3) they might not even contest the flags for fear of losing stuff to your models threating the flag in which case you can score three points by running stuff. at this point they need to clear or contest all three flags and you are on the cusp of winning. (seems worse)

4) they contest two flags aggressively planning to score 2 points on their third turn and abandon one flag. You can then run to control the flags they've abandoned and set up to threaten the flags they will inevitable try to control. This gives you 1 point before your armies smash into each other. At which point your opponent needs to exert enought pressure to win the two flags he's claimed while also extending sufficiently to at least clear the third flag. this is a game i feel that is playable for both but significantly favors the second player. (seems okay)

So, I think the changes turned this common scenario on its head and now going second is the natural choice. This tactic doesn't work for slow, bricky armies. However, those armies were never particularly good in this scenario anyway. Also, since you're going second you can counter deploy against the flags they plan to capture. Try to put a light warbeast or warjack on the flag they want to concede because those will require the most from your opponent to remove and they won't just die to a gunmage or a blast. The key seems to be to trivially apply pressure on that third flag for the entire game while fighting over the other two flags with the majority of your force. Every list seems like it can play for scenario by going second due to the simple fact that practically no list can play for scenario by going first.

As much as I loved the google group it had some issues.  For one, it isn't very inclusive for discussions and it would be fun to have a more open face for the group.  It also had some problems in directly replying to the group.

A open blog to post and respond to these lists and other thoughts could be fun and get the discussion rolling.  I was also inspired by taking to some tripbrut disciples and how they have been working on perfecting the work Joe abandoned with Mak3 over some Blog.

The only down side is I know some of you don't have a gmail account.  You'll need a Google account to post and likely to reply as well.  You should already have one of these but I know half of you are luddites as it is.

I need to figure out how to have the Blog inform me when there have been updates.  Also the template is likely going to be awful for a while.  I will give people admin writes once they sign up so people who would like to can adjust all that.